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Cover letters are stupid. I only do them when explicitly requested to do so. Employers that wax poetic about them in their unsolicited online job advice should have to write them to candidates too. The application process is a two way street.

5 months ago

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Just something i was thinking about while waking up. I’m applying to a step up opportunity and so I’ve been seeing all of the terrible job advice out there again, one of which is employers saying candidates should submit cover letters because it helps the employer see how you write and how interesting you are. No, fuck that. It’s a two way street and that’s something they don’t tell you. An interview is the candidate interviewing the employer just as as much as the employer interviewing the candidate. Unfortunately things have become unbalanced and the employer has the upper hand. But that doesn’t mean you can’t treat it like you can take it or leave it. My favorite part of an interview is when they ask if I have any questions and oh boy do I. I absolutely HATE behavioral based “Tell me about a time when...” questions and I punish the system by giving them right back. “Tell me about a time when you had to deal with a difficult employee. Explain the situation and how you resolved it.” Turns out that funnily enough I started getting more call backs when I started doing this before my most recent job. I ask them what their management style is. I ask what a bad day and a good day looks like at the company and describe it. I ask them, paycheck off the table, what keeps them coming back to work each day. And that’s how you get a lot of insight into the company and determine whether you could tolerate the job. They could be calm and jovial or they could start shifting uncomfortably in their seats. Pay attention to the body language. Last interview I did had so many red flags and halfway through I had already decided I didn’t want anything to do with these people. I wanted to just cut the interview short and leave but I decided not to be rude. However, in the future I most certainly will politely interject, thank them for their time, and excuse myself. I asked them why the position was open. The manager laughed really arrogantly and said “There was a recent departure...” that, compared with everyone else looking like they didn’t want to be there or even interview me, told me everything I needed to know. But to get back to my point, fuck cover letters. Managers should have to write them too if they think they’re so important and wax poetic about them online. Pander and grovel to the candidates about how great it is to work on your team and why you can offer them professional growth and fulfillment. I think the turns will table here soon. Maybe a few years. Before this year it was an employees market. Things were good on average since the financial crash. Then covid hit. But honestly a lot of people are putting their foot down about Remote work and life quality over the last year. They’re quitting or turning down jobs that they find to be unreasonable for the mental health and work life balance. I think there will be a shift to employees having the upper hand. That’s my hope at least, but I’m confident we will see it some day. In conclusion, don’t submit a cover letter unless they explicitly ask, it’s a job that benefits from a writing sample like publishing, or you really like the company and actually have something you want to say to them beyond a repetition of your resume. Otherwise it’s a waste of your time. You could improve your resume or move on to the next job posting in the time you would spend on a cover letter.


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    Batoutofhellodolly

    I hate them. I do them, but I hate them. There’s the email, the cover letter, the resume and then they’ll have you fill out a separate application form with the exact same information.

    5 months ago

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      tempted_temptress

      I’ve been working in a federal resume and it’s the most convoluted process I’ve ever gone through. But whatever. At least they don’t play games. They’re upfront about what to do and want it in a certain format. At least in government a person reads your application and as long as you meet the requirements and format it the way they say you stand a relatively good chance of getting referred to the hiring manager. But I saw a post somewhere in the last few days where the employer basically said something like “Save your cover letter. We can get the info we need from your resume. No need to repeat.” Or something like that. I think a lot of employers request them because it’s just some outdated standard from when you actually hand delivered an application packet and stood a good chance of being interviewed right away or working the week.

      5 months ago

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    sandwichman7896

    I have been looking for a new position since July. Initially, I made a unique cover letter for each position, and the response was not impressive. I have since shifted to a three prong approach. LinkedIn carpet bombing campaigns only get a cover letter if required by the poster, decent jobs I’m still overqualified for get generic cover letters, and extremely close matches get a personalized cover letter. I like your interviewing approach, and I plan to adopt a milder versions for myself going forward.

    5 months ago

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    reissekm5

    "Tell me about a time when you had to deal with a difficult employee. Explain the situation and how you resolved it.” Hahaha I've never thought of asking this to an employer in an interview.

    5 months ago

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      RudeJuggernaut

      Yea some of the examples OP gave seem like really good questions.

      5 months ago

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    sjmiv

    >Pay attention to the body language. Last interview I did had so many red flags and halfway through I had already decided I didn’t want anything to do with these people. Towards the end of my last interview, because of body language, I could tell I wasn't going to get the job. I said something along the lines of "I had a few questions but I don't want to take up too much of your time." And they asked me to keep going. So I asked "what kind of development plan do you have for your team?" and the other interviewer said "oh, nothing". Guess I dodged a bullet on that one.

    5 months ago

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      tempted_temptress

      “Lol, no.” Or more politely, “Thank you for your time. However, I am retracting my application as I don’t think this position aligns with my career development goals. I wish you the best in securing the best candidate for this position.”

      5 months ago

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    Paganpaulwhisky

    Ya I've never felt like writing a cover letter has given me any type of advantage when applying for a job and who has the time to customize dozens of cover letters when applying in volume? If I had actually landed a dream job after writing a thoughtful cover letter it would be a different story but the job I usually land is the one where I just sent out a resume in two seconds and forgot about. BTW I like some of those questions you are asking - may borrow a few of those.

    5 months ago

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      tempted_temptress

      Exactly. A cover letter is just so unnecessary for entry level and mid level jobs. If you’re hiring a VP then yeah, let’s see more about you. But for a job that high up the pool of qualified candidates with decades of experience is small and they have time to read them. But entry level? Yeah that marketing coordinator job means you’re going help assemble brochures and talk to external print contract vendors. They make it sound better in paper than it actually is and those jobs don’t require you to talk about how overqualified you are for them. It’s just office jobs in general. They’re never as exciting as you think they are in the posting.

      5 months ago

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    Turtlegovernor

    It's a shame because the cover should reflect genuine interest in the job. I would love to take the time to pick out the opportunities that seem to be the very best fit and craft a nice letter for each one. But in the real world, it's a waste. Put in more job applications AKA give yourself more tickets for the job lottery. Then hope the interviewer likes you.

    5 months ago

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      greenwalrus1999

      > job lottery this is such an accurate description i can't

      5 months ago

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    CostaNico

    I definitely feel like there is a general 'fatigue' with cover letters and the way in which interviews are conducted these days. I'm also pretty damn frustrated with a lot of these online portals for applications. Like, why the fuck do I need to write out my job experience when you asked me to attach a resume on the previous page? Why do you need me to write a few short sentences describing my interest in the job when you've already requested a cover letter? I'm getting the sense that a lot of people are fed up with the way things are. Fortunately I do think that we're seeing the beginnings of a change in the standard 9-5 office job. Hopefully we'll realize a completely remote, 4-day work week is feasible.

    5 months ago

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      tempted_temptress

      I got to a point before my current job where I refused to apply to jobs that do that. As soon as I got redirected to Taleo I was like “Nope.”

      5 months ago

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    PhillyMila215

    I agree with your interviewing techniques. It is definitely a two way street. Anyone who is looking for tips on inquiring about office culture, please read this and then read it again!

    5 months ago

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      tempted_temptress

      I honestly used to be so stressed and feel like I had to bend over backwards. It made me come off as nervous and needy in interviews. Then someone told me that years ago and ever since then I’ve been much more calm and personable in interviews. It gives power back to applicants because it’s about you feeling like it’s a good fit too.

      5 months ago

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    WhatOnceHadGlory

    For a position that only gets a few qualified applicants, I agree with you. Cover letters are hardly even looked at. I review candidate applications obsessively, so it’s definitely not a waste of time for my applicants, but I realize that most people on committees like that do not. However, having dealt with interview processes that gets dozens of qualified applicants for one position, or thousands of applicants for an admissions process that takes a couple hundred, supplemental written material is critical. We can’t afford to waste the committee’s time with a dozen first interviews; we spend more time on the front end in selecting who to interview. A cover letter does help us better screen candidates pre-interview. But in those cases, we do require it. I’m thinking you have the wrong idea of what a cover letter is for, though - an effective cover letter isn’t poetic, pandering, or groveling. That’s one of things we screen for.

    5 months ago

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      cheap_dates

      My last company didn't even accept Cover Letters in their application process and they got dozens of candidates for each position. The ATS screened everything. Guess it depends on the Kulture.

      5 months ago

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    Worthyness

    I gave up at some point and basically used the same one just replacing some key words to fit whatever industry. Cover letters are outdated at this point, especially when people can just look you up on something like linkedin

    5 months ago

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    NekotheCompDependent

    I was at a training a all day training and started talking to someone who managed a location near my apartment. So I asked her if they had opening, she spent all day evaluating me. At the end she asked for my resume and cover letter. She was like I like to read them. I didn't end up applying to the job. She already knew she wanted to hire me. I couldn't see the point for a low paying job to jump threw that hoop. 6 months later I walked off my job. Im also very dyslexic so verbally I am amazing, but cover letter, I need someone to proof read them. because I speak at a higher level then I read (spell check only does so much). I only send cover letters if I really want the job. I only get inviewed though if someone has read my resume

    5 months ago

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    english_avocado

    I always do a cover letter and I always get to the unterview stage(and job). I tailor my letter and resume so I'm applying for 5-7 jobs and not 50

    5 months ago

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    power_forward87

    They are. They're basically the same thing as your header blurb at the top of your resume. When I was hiring, I disregarded them entirely and went straight to the resume. When I'm being interviewed, I always hit back with the same questions. I'll often catch them off guard too. "So why should I accept this position you're going to offer me?"(this works two ways btw, shows the confidence, and gets some valuable insight into how they treat people). "Sell me on the job". and my personal favourite, "what makes you a good supervisor/manager?"

    5 months ago

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    freeflyandNylon

    Honestly, I dont even bother with jobs that require one. Its such a waste of time.

    5 months ago

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    marblemenow1

    Thanks for sharing. I usually ask employers what the least favorite part of their job is and what the favorite part of their job is. I always ask diversity-related questions to see how serious they actually are about uplifting marginalized employees or not. Most of the time, it's not and they're just reading off the diversity portion of their company websites, but some were able to give more personal stories.

    5 months ago

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    Seeker80

    I don't like them, but I figure something is better than nothing. I use a template and tweak it to fit. Maybe it doesn't get read, but it can at least check off a box that it was done. What bugs me is getting an initial interview with the recruiter and having it go great, then evidently the actual manager isn't interested at all so it goes nowhere. There's a local company I'd love to work for and I've been applying on/off since 2018. They actually initiated contact with me the very first time! I just can't get past the first interview. I applied again today, and figure I'll just ask the recruiter more about what the manager is looking for. There sure seems to be a difference between the two.

    5 months ago

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    dane83

    As someone who has been a hiring manager for fifteen years, good cover letters are often the difference between two candidates with relatively equal resumes. Job interviews are a two way street. Deciding who even gets an interview? Not so much.

    5 months ago

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      rubyfaye77

      Absolutely agree with this. For a position I am hiring for currently good cover letters boosted a few candidates into the interview pile. Interviews are definitely a two way street. I have had interviews with candidates that started slow or not great but when it got to questions they asked it changed my mind from a no or a maybe to a yes.

      5 months ago

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    LovePhiladelphia

    For me it depends on the job I am hiring for. If I am hiring for a Practice Director or a VP of Sales, you don't need a cover letter. I already know you and we just need to meet to see if our objectives align and I need to convince you to work for me over someone else. Your interview will be at a Steakhouse. If it is for an Associate position where I'm going to get 100+ applicants and am going to ignore 90, phone interview 10, in person interview 4, and choose 2-4, a cover letter very well might make a difference between getting a phone interview or not as it gives me a chance to "hear" the person rather than just look at bullet points and it can tell me that a person is interested in *this* job and not *any* job. That could just be me though. If you don't like them, don't write them. You should be yourself in the job search process, that way when you take a job there aren't misconceptions.

    5 months ago

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      thatburghfan

      >If it is for an Associate position where I'm going to get 100+ applicants and am going to ignore 90, phone interview 10, in person interview 4, and choose 2-4, a cover letter very well might make a difference between getting a phone interview or not as it gives me a chance to "hear" the person rather than just look at bullet points and it can tell me that a person is interested in this job and not any job. > >That could just be me though. If you don't like them, don't write them. You should be yourself in the job search process, that way when you take a job there aren't misconceptions. That's me as well. A well-crafted cover letter can be the difference between the backup pile and the short pile. I remember one where the applicant had an interesting explanation why s/he was so interested in our industry and the resume itself wasn't strong enough to make it into the short pile. Got in the short pile and ended up being the person hired. The personality was perfect for the job but in a resume would have been described using all the standard buzzwords that don't even stand out any more. I like cover letters that reflect something about the type of person s/he is, beyond a list of skills that I can see in a resume. Sometimes it shows the person is a bad fit, but it avoids wasting everyone's time having interviews that will go nowhere.

      5 months ago

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    SoFloSpearo

    You can hate them and not do them, but you're just giving someone else a better shot. Most resumes are super generic by design. Cover letters are just about the only way to see the individuality shine through.

    5 months ago

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      tempted_temptress

      I disagree. Face to face communication is the best way to see individuality come through, and that only comes from interviewing someone. Choosing whether an applicant is qualified at first glance comes from a resume.

      5 months ago

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    dadadawn

    I prefer cover letters. As a hiring manager, I always look at them first. Most resumes are bloated and over-exaggerated.

    5 months ago

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    ElectraUnderTheSea

    It may be a two-way street but the offer-demand balance weights heavily on the side of those hiring except for very qualified, specific jobs. So for the time being they can afford to make people go through stupid systems where you need to type your CV and cover letter like 3 times and attach them in the end as well. Cover letters sucks balls, 100% agree. I only put effort on them for jobs I really really want; for others I have something more generic I can easily customize under 2 minutes.

    5 months ago

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      tempted_temptress

      I refused to apply to jobs that do that stuff. As soon as I got redirected to Taleo I was like “Nope.” I always wanted to work in government and got a foot in. It’s so much better because a person has to read every resume. The automated systems are just dumb. They use the excuse of receiving too many applications. Well, ya know, that’s why the government lists a close date and also says OR until we read x number of applicants.

      5 months ago

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    DrewFlan

    "Cover Letter" is a misleading term. It doesn't need to one a whole page or even a few paragraphs. They should be literally a few sentences introducing yourself and explaining why you'd be right for the job. Anything more and it won't get read and anything less and you're underselling yourself.

    5 months ago

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    The-waitress-

    Maybe it’s because I was an adult in 2009, when I lost job and my house and had to live hand to mouth for the next 5 years, that I find this perspective to be arrogant, immature, and entitled. I have never ever felt like I’ve had the upper hand in an interview because, ultimately, they have something I want (money). They also have endless candidates whereas I do not have endless high-paying jobs for which I’m qualified. I admire your positivity and progressiveness, but I think you’re setting yourself up for even more disappointment by pretending you somehow have some power over them. As someone who has interviewed and hired ppl in the past, I can tell you that the interviewers did not likely self-reflect bc of your behavior; they laughed behind your back and went on with their interviews. I’m not saying you’re wrong (I think you’re right, in fact) but that’s just not how things work. Best of luck. I hope your strategy works out.

    5 months ago

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      itsfrankgrimesyo

      Absolutely. I got the exact same vibe from this post.

      5 months ago

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    Skensis

    Haven't done one with ages.

    5 months ago

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    d3rp1n4_d3rps0n

    I also hate them - and mostly don’t understand their purpose (I’m not from the US) And same goes to the “interviewer thank you letter” - which I also don’t understand... if interviewers write me something, I will reply back in the same way... why it needs to be a one way process? Only time I wanted to write a letter to an interviewer was when he did the virtual whiteboard interview from his mobile in his car because “there was no quiet space at his home” and then he didn’t use the whiteboard and even turned of his camera because his mobile network was bad... When the recruiter told me they were not moving with me because my whiteboard interview didn’t went well I was like yeah... “thank you XXX for not being professional”... aside of that I don’t see a purpose...

    5 months ago

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    Edmundo-Studios

    I don’t think I’ve ever done one maybe they are not a thing in the UK?

    5 months ago

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    AusIV

    On the manager's side of the table, I've always looked at it as a two way street. I'm there trying to convince the candidate that they should come work with my team as much as I'm trying to assess whether I want them on my time. As far as cover letters go - most of the places I've worked I don't even get to see the cover letter. HR plugs the resume into some tracking system and flags it for me to review. HR might care about the cover letter, but as the hiring manager I've reviewed thousands of resumes, and I can only think of one cover letter I've ever even had the opportunity to look at (and that was a really weird situation).

    5 months ago

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    CMDR_KingErvin

    I would only ever do one if it’s a position within the company I already work at and I’m applying internally. This way I can control everything I say to be catered to the person reading it. If it’s a shot in the dark position in a company I don’t work at, there’s literally no reason to do it. It’s just a huge waste of time and energy.

    5 months ago

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    paparazzi_informer

    I do write cover letters. Or really I just update a template cover letter each time. I do it because I think I come across better in writing than I do on my one-page resume. BUT I definitely do ask a lot of intense questions during interviews. It's fun for me, but it's also memorable for the interviewer.

    5 months ago

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    JadendayZero

    Unfortunately beggers can't be choosers. Especially if your desperate for a job that pays enough to live comfortably. I find that if the person has a skill that's in demand then you have the leasure of picking and choosing your job as described. Although many people don't and are too scared to not take up on the first offer they get no matter how toxic is might seem.

    5 months ago

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    Rhypskallion

    A few years ago, I was a hiring manager. We posted an ad, and I had 80 resumes in 3 weeks. So how did I go through the pile, and turn a pile of 80 into a small set of folks (6-8) to actually interview? There were criteria that I used to separate from the pile. Relevant degree: short pile. Relevant experience; short pile. Good cover letter: short pile. I've had post interview phases where I could not decide between 3 qualified candidates. And eventually the deciding factor was a cover letter. Cover letters matter sometimes. They're worth some effort

    5 months ago

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      tempted_temptress

      I’m a big fan of the way that government handles it. HR is required to read every application and choose whether to refer it to the hiring manager. But they state in posts: This job post is open until MMDDYYYY at 11:59pm or until 25 applications are received. To me that’s realistic and efficient because there’s no reason to accept hundreds of applications. If they don’t receive qualified ones that they review up until the required closing, they choose to extend it and take more. Companies argue they can’t do that because they need the work done. But that doesn’t stop the process from taking weeks or leaving teams understaffed for months and years. Government takes more care because they’re big on internal development and training. It’s a big investment to bring someone in, train them, and then they leave. This is true for the private sector too. There should be more care taken when investing in an employee. Anyone can BS a resume or cover letter. They can even do it in an interview. But at least face to face you get a better feel for the person.

      5 months ago

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    Bran-a-don

    As a hiring manager, we never read them. It's more to see if you follow directions. Makes it easy to separate the employees who are gonna be an issue later when you need regulations followed.

    5 months ago

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      The-waitress-

      This

      5 months ago

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    Psyc5

    No they aren't they allow you to show your skill set that can't easily be expressed in a resume. The most important part of your application maybe 3 bullet points of your resume, but when fleshed out, far more relevant, valid, and impressive. If you are writing irrelevancies into in, that is your own fault.

    5 months ago

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    Deadboy619

    I love the idea of companies writing cover letters for candidates!

    5 months ago

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      tempted_temptress

      I expect one within 2 business days of my application. Reference my resume and share how you think I’d be an asset to your team. That way I can ask more in the interview. Oh, they would squirm if it were required.

      5 months ago

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    guineapiggirla

    I just have a general one and send it to every job. Never had an issue 🤷‍♂️

    5 months ago

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    spookymouse1

    I stopped writing cover letters a month ago. I realized that my interviews were requested from hiring managers who never read my cover letters or jobs I didn't write cover letters for.

    5 months ago

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    those_silly_dogs

    I’m right with you. Fuck that. These employers get hundreds of applications and most of the time, you don’t even hear back. You want me to write a cover letter when the chances of you getting back to me is minuscule?? No thanks.

    5 months ago

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    RGTATWORK

    The cover letter has it's porpoises though in recent years it's become more limited. I use it as my "elevator pitch" or "commercial" introduction. I've memorized it so I can bust that out at the face to face interview and ramble for two minutes. If they ask what I do/have done outside of work, I include hobbies and interests. OP is absolutely right that people should turn the tables and put the interviewers on the spot with pointed questions. I've asked "why do you like working here", "what projects are coming up that they need MY help with", work/life balance, etc. Basic stuff, and was surprised by how many people I caught off-guard with those. But damn, I can't say I ever thought to ask how they dealt with problem employees. I mean I figured that'd be something that they couldn't legally discuss.![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|smile)

    5 months ago

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    melaningoddess____

    Thanks a lot for your post. I’m currently looking after a long time unemployed and I agree. I never do cover letters, unless I really like the job posting and/or they ask for it. Usually both otherwise I don’t bother. It’s insanely time consuming and then employers don’t even email you back. But I really love your interview style. I never have questions for employees and I think it’s important. Thank you!

    5 months ago

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    St_Lambchop

    As someone who spent several years doing talent acquisition as part of my job, I hate cover letters. I personally think they are obsolete and I can guarantee that never read 99% of the cover letters that were included with a resume.

    5 months ago

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    HOOP435

    ![gif](giphy|2ytlbPlOr6c028biPK|downsized)

    5 months ago

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    PapaMurphy2000

    Complete waste of time to write one since nobody will ever read them.

    5 months ago

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    mysteryihs

    I want to know more about your interview process, it sounds solid and I myself have recently started adopting this style since I just came out of a bad job.

    5 months ago

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      tempted_temptress

      What would you like to know?

      5 months ago

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    teenylittlesupergal

    I spoke with professional recruiters/placement agency consultants and they all said that when they worked in HR departments they didn't even read cover letters. I think if the job posting is a good fit, they're easy enough to do but everything needed is already in the resume or LinkedIn. So I tend to agree, they are pretty pointless.

    5 months ago

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    TheEclipse0

    I don't understand the conventional wisdom of writing a new cover letter for each and every job application. First, my experience between applications doesn't change in any meaningful way. Second, I've been applying for about five to ten jobs every day for the past year. I write well, but not well enough to type out what would essentially be the length of a novelette everyday without sacrificing spelling and grammar to some extent. Even if I could do that, frankly, I'm just not interesting enough that I can write a completely unique letter for every retail job that I apply for. So, I just have one template that I use where I highlight my greatest success story with some empty fields that I spend about five minutes customizing before I send my application. People are telling me not to do that, but I maintain that I'd rather send out one well written cover letter than hundreds of bad ones that will take far too long to write. I know most people won't read it anyway, and I'd rather save the effort for positions that align with my education.

    5 months ago

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    PixelLight

    I guess this will vary by role and industry but at least from my role it's a total waste of time. My perspective is that I'm expecting the company that I'm applying to to be efficient, to assign me tasks that aren't a waste of time. Therefore if a cover letter is expected that's a bad sign because it's not a good use of the company's time, or my own time.

    5 months ago

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    fuckimtrash

    Fr, fuck cover letters. I get anxious and major writers block when it comes to writing a cover letter and it stunts me applying. My bro got interviews and said he used a cover letter for every application, so made the job search process even more difficult.

    5 months ago

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    BachelTheBhenchod

    "Tell me about a time when you had to deal with a difficult employee..." Tbh if someone asked me that I would bust out laughing. But, you're right, as long as they didn't say it in an asshole way, they'd probably be higher up on my list.

    5 months ago

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      tempted_temptress

      Hahaha. My former manager had an employee that worked public facing. Came to work one day wearing no bra. So they told them they had to go home and change. Employee came back wearing a white T-shirt and bright red bra underneath. Manager was like “..... no. Go home and try again.” Employee just put in leave for the rest of the day.

      5 months ago

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    human0id_typh00n

    Thank you for this post. I have an interview next week and I haven't done so well in interviews after a brain issue I had and I am nervous.

    5 months ago

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      tempted_temptress

      It’s normal to be nervous but don’t let it sabotage things. If you get called for an interview they’ve already determined from your resume that at least on paper you seem qualified to do the job. So they may ask a few questions to make sure you weren’t bullshitting, but ultimately what they are really doing at an interview is trying to determine if you’re a good culture fit. How it would be to work with you. And it’s easy enough to show that right? You know who you are and how you interact with people, the public, etc.

      5 months ago

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    CatsCatsDoges

    Are cover letters not overly common in the states? Here in Aus you would have a cover letter for almost any job you apply for. I mean, I hate them, but I’m just so used to writing them that it feels weird to apply for a job without it.

    5 months ago

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    DarkWinterIsNow

    Use this format! It rocks https://www.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/37rgr1/heres_the_best_cover_letter_ive_ever_seen/

    5 months ago

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    Aekaitz

    I definitely want to take this advice the next time I land an interview. I’ve always heard asking questions is good, but these are brilliant and will hopefully help me avoid leaving one toxic place and waltzing into another.

    5 months ago

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    Scottyaya

    Currently in the recruiting process for one of our locations, and I sometimes feel bad when someone goes the extra mile to create a cover letter or have a tailored paragraph at the top of their resume. Why? Because the application itself has all the information I need. We do have it to where the applicant can upload their resume, but it's pointless. I have to click the resume option just to view it when all the relevant info I need is automatically displayed. Please don't downvote the messenger. I have no control over the process or the system.

    5 months ago

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    edenite

    My interviews increased dramatically once I dropped cover letters altogether. Waste of time

    5 months ago

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    GoodGuyMiguel

    I absolutely love the way you 🤔 I couldn't agree more. You put it in such a great way too. So props to that I really thought it too once. Once you're really familiar at a certain type of job you learn everything about it inside out, especially if you had a few like me lol either for age or just life fucking happens. Anyways , great read. I like your thinking.

    5 months ago

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    mangogr

    Period. Fuck cover letters. And next interview I'm definitely asking the interviewer these questions.

    5 months ago

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    rowedkill

    I was laid off early this year and decided cover letters weren’t worth the time. My resume is a concise single page showcasing experience since school. It’s 15 years worth of info. I started applying to every potential job that might fit on LinkedIn. Sometimes, I’d tinker with my resume to match a job I really wanted. For those, I highlighted the experience I had that matched the job description or desired qualifications. That made much more sense than a cover letter. I interviewed constantly (single interviews, all day panel interviews, phone, zoom, etc.) for about 6 weeks. I landed a job that was a significant step up in pay from my last job, and I never used a cover letter. My last piece of severance pay hits this week, and I started the new job yesterday. Volume of applications and an easy to read resume full of your experience and skills help land the interviews. When I was a hiring manager, I only read cover letters to see if they were sloppy.

    5 months ago

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    thegreatwave6503

    Employers do write a cover letter. It's right there in the job listing where they tell you that they have one of the most competitive reward packages in the industry; that they offer excellent support and career development, and that 6 years ago they won a bronze "good employer" award from some magazine you've never heard of. The only difference between our cover letters and theirs is that ours are expected to look like we made an effort.

    5 months ago

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    thatonedude511

    I’ve always taken the cover letter and made that like my point of contact email if I’m reaching out about an opportunity, I have also not understood the point of them but I think they make good introductory pieces in the right situation.

    5 months ago

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    isoblvck

    You might be be surprised how little of every part of the employment process and employment itself is a two way street....

    5 months ago

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    nanocookie

    It's interesting how the entire approach of modern day hiring is so hopelessly antiquated. It's the 21st century, and the only progress that has been made regarding delivery of job applications is the use of badly designed ATS software - which is a good example of "two steps forward and one step backward".

    5 months ago

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    metisviking

    I agree but I do them all the time because I'm a little bitch who went to college

    5 months ago

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    itsfrankgrimesyo

    This topic comes up all the time, and the answer is always the same - it depends on the job you’re applying for. I used to be a hiring manager and I absolutely read all the cover letters. A glowing resume means nothing if the person can’t even put a simple sentence together, but then again, I was hiring for a position that required writing reports. If i were hiring for say an IT position, then I agree cover letters would be a waste of time. I also hate to tell you this but at the end of the day, you need employers more than they need you, just ask someone who has been unemployed for a long time and need to pay their bills. If you’re not vibing them, I guarantee someone else will gladly take the job. While there’s nothing wrong with wanting to learn more about the company’s culture but it could come across as arrogant.

    5 months ago

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    xiipaoc

    I have never successfully submitted a cover letter in a job application -- all of the jobs I've had have been through recruiters, so there has never been any need. But, as someone who helps on the other side of hiring (it's a team effort at my company and we all participate; it's seriously a lot of fun), the cover letter is actually pretty useful when it provides actual information I can use or ask about. I would (personally, can't speak for my teammates) never ding someone for not having a cover letter. They're honestly pretty stupid. But if there is one, I will read it before the interview and maybe it will inspire me to ask interesting questions. I also wouldn't ding a candidate for having a bullshit cover letter, because we all know cover letters are bullshit and the candidate wrote one because the candidate thought it was a requirement. But those letters *are* a chance to provide more personalized information to a company if that's important to you. > I absolutely HATE behavioral based “Tell me about a time when...” questions and I punish the system by giving them right back. “Tell me about a time when you had to deal with a difficult employee. Explain the situation and how you resolved it.” I don't know why you hate those. I really like them, since it gives the candidate a chance to talk about work. I can evaluate whether the candidate knows what's happening on a technical level without having to do whiteboard coding (I work in software). But job interviews are always, always, always a two-way street, which a lot of people can forget. I personally like getting questions like that from candidates. Hiring someone who won't be happy in our team is just shooting ourselves in the foot; it's a lose-lose situation that is no fun for anyone. So I definitely agree with this advice. Ask interview-style questions of the people interviewing you. And if they're good questions, that's another plus.

    5 months ago

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    Hypo_Mix

    I don't mind coverletters/KSC etc *IF* they have already short listed resumes first. There is not point making everyone write an essay if you are going to glance at a resume and go "no, not enough experience". I don't get why this isn't done, saves everyone time. Take the best 10 resumes and then ask for more info.

    5 months ago

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    audacesfortunajuvat

    I hire a couple hundred people a year across several industries and locations across the country. I don’t ask for or read cover letters. The only thing they’re useful for is to check whether you can write coherently enough that spell check can figure out what you were trying to say. There’s usually enough text in the resume to figure that out and I’ll know within a couple emails either way. I care much more about verifiable skills on your resume than any fluff in a cover letter. I know people who feel exactly the opposite but they’re generally people I don’t have much respect for and don’t agree with philosophically (they want to know a candidate is passionate whereas I want to know if they’ll diligently perform the job for the salary we’re offering, since I assume they’re working to get paid and do their passions as a hobby until they can get paid for those).

    5 months ago

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    Arachnesloom

    Not a HR person, but I just assume cover letters are to demonstrate my basic command of the English language (or whatever language is needed) and word processing/ formatting. I keep it to a few sentences: "Hi. I am polite; I read the job description; I have the education needed. Thanks for your consideration."

    5 months ago

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    hL4w

    Where Im from more and more companies skip the cover letter and look only on the resume.

    5 months ago

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    supagirl277

    Yes! Especially when they feel it’s appropriate to ghost candidates who didn’t get the job

    5 months ago

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    Led-Rain

    I just wrote "no" on mine some years back. lol. didn't get a response back. Got a job offer from someone else the next day.

    5 months ago

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    owta_this_world

    They're a waste of time. They tell you nothing and employers rarely read them. It's such a waste of time if after reading your resume for 10 seconds they can your application. Every job I've gotten in my life and just about all jobs I got to interview stage. I never submitted a cover letter.

    5 months ago

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    Mondoscuro

    Your cover letter is a sales letter. Your resume is another piece of that sales letter. You have to sell yourself first, to the point where you know for sure they want you. Then you decide if you want them.

    5 months ago

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    luisdanielmesa

    I've never written a cover letter and I'm not writing one for a company that requests 5 years of experience for something which is 3 years old.

    5 months ago

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    Sillysheila

    In some places you have to do cover letters though. I think they are more common in Australia, every employer almost seems to say you must submit a cover letter or selection criteria response AND a resume otherwise your application won’t be accepted. Maybe I’m weird but I like writing so maybe that’s why...I love making cover letters. I like showing I have a personality and I’m more than the sum of my resume. I also like them because to me they’re a good way of getting employers to see how your work experience benefits their business. A lot of people have also complimented my responses at interviews so I don’t think it’s always a bad/useless thing.

    5 months ago

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    beansproutclout

    You've inspired me. Mad respect to you

    5 months ago

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    theoutlander_

    They’re stupid and I refuse to apply at places like that. I was once in the pipeline to interview at SpaceX in 2012 or so and they had a week of interview rounds including a day of presentations, writing an essay to Elon Musk, etc. As much as I wanted to work there, I decided that it wasn’t worth my time.

    5 months ago

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